Monday, July 3, 2006

Keenan don't deal, Burke does

From the Miami Herald, by way of TSN's Ice Chips page:

Florida GM Mike Keenan has informed Edmonton GM Kevin Lowe the Panthers will no longer would pursue a trade for Chris Pronger. The Oilers were thought to want Jay Bouwmeester and either Nathan Horton or Stephen Weiss.

So, given that signing a good free agent defenceman is entirely impossible at the moment, we pretty much have to get one in return; Florida looked like the best option, to me, but now that they're out, what?


Oh, wait, as I was posting, this came in. Pronger to the Ducks for a player that (reportedly) isn't Scott Niedermayer, and a non-roster player, plus a bunch of high-end draft picks. Which means, uh, it's rebuilding time!!!

UPDATE: As mentioned in the comments, the players are Joffrey Lupul and Ladislav Smid, who is supposedly one of the ten best prospects in the world, according to some people who are supposed to know these things. I also keep hearing several conditional high picks, presumably dependent on Pronger's/the Ducks' performance (
UPDATED: two firsts, 2007 and conditional, and a second in 2008).

So, fuck. Is this deal better than Bouwmeester/Horton? Depends on how quickly Smid goes from prospect to Pronger-calibre defenceman, if ever. I think Lupul is at least a wash with Horton, maybe better. As daryl points out in the comments, high draft picks from a team that looks capable of top-of-the-league finishes for the next four years doesn't really mean much. I suppose it means we could package two picks for a top one, but yeah. We also save a lot of salary, which I guess we offer to Spacek and some other UFA forward?

Or, actually, come to think of it, maybe getting a bunch of first-round picks from Anaheim means we take a run at a good RFA? If we sign Bouwmeester (Bergeron, Boyes, Pitkanen?) for anything less than about $4.5mil, it's only three first-round picks. Ballsy move if we do it, but it would make more sense than Pronger for a maybe-first-line forward and a prospect, however good.

Right now, though, I'm going to call this deal largely suspect, with a chance of being a patented pre-CBA soon-to-be-UFA, loss-recoup special if Snid turns out to be a Calder candidate on our backend. If that happens AND Lowe steals a quality RFA, I'll nominate him for Ballsy Mad Genius (perhaps Orbs of Guile). If going for an RFA is our plan and we can't actually sign them, he gets a hat tip for creativity and a finger wag for lack of foresight.

ANOTHER UPDATE: Whatever we do, incredible deal for Anaheim. Says here their defence is Pronger, Niedermayer, Beauchemin (who started to look pretty good in the playoffs), Vishnevski, Sean O'Donnell and Joe Dipenta. Only made worse by the fact you could put dead cats with Pronger or Niedermayer and they'd look like top-four defencemen. I think Burke earns his genius title on this trade, especially since, with all the young players he's got coming into their own, not having top picks for a year or two won't hurt much.

34 comments:

Colby Cosh said...

What the fuck's this? A puzzle of some sort?

Alana said...

Looks like it's Joffrey Lupul. hmmm.

Colby Cosh said...

So says Sportsnet, but who's the "non-roster player"? That had better be pointing to Perry or Getzlaf...

daryl said...

I heard Smid or something? Some Def I know nothing about. Either way, not enough for a Pronger. And draft picks from a team that looks pretty effn good on paper won't be very high....

Doogie2K said...

As if my morning at work wasn't frustrating enough.

*bangs head into monitor until it breaks*

*sliced up by shards*

*dies*

Colby Cosh said...

Sportsnet's now saying Lupul, Smid, and a conditional pick? Guh?

daryl said...

Maybe Lupul will waive his salary cuz his Grandpa is part of the Oil ownership group.

eden5900 said...

Did we get the cocky, arrogant Lupul, or is there another Lupul on Aneheim I don't know about?

Brian said...

It's Lupul, Smid, a 1st in 07, a 2nd in 08, and a conditional first in '08.... condition still unknown but likely involves Anahiem destroying all comers.

Honestly, that seems a pretty good return, albeit one that doesn't look likely to pay off for a few years.

gary b said...

Smid was drafted 9th overall in 2004 (behind ovechkin, malkin, cam barker...).

and 2 firsts and a 2nd round pick in the deal, too?!!

K-Lo totally flips 'em for something nice, i bet.

eden5900 said...

who's got a linky that explains ufa's, rfa's; and how they are obtained? Is it akin to metaphorically stealing a buddy's sister and let her sit on your face?

eden5900 said...

found what I was looking for re: rfa's
http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/archive/cba/article10.html

Steve said...

Have a little faith in K-Lo.

He's got a bunch of killer draft picks to play around with now. It's not the best trade, but he was running out of time to dump Pronger after we didn't land any deals with Chara, etc.

And don't forget that we got Roli by trading a draft pick. We can do amazing things with this deal and we now have an extra $5 million to play around with. It will be fine.

Randy in the Med Hizzo said...

Lupul will be an elite trigger man in a year or two, better than decent this year. Criminy how many defenceman does Burke need? He's single and apparently got his head on straight, but I sincerly hope the weight of playing under the hometown microscope doesn't destroy him. A) He's essentially Prongers replacement, B) hometown players turn into Chimera and Comrie more often than into Messier and Fuhr, C) it took five hours for Oiler fans to script a porno film that featured Pronger and every weathergirl in town.
Learn a lesson here, Oil Fan.

Steve said...

Although, I will add that having a Pronger-Niedermayer line up in our division is a terrible idea. Florida would have been a lot better for the Oil.

I'm now hoping the Ducks cave under a battle for power. I can't see Pronger and Niedermayer sharing ice time very easily.

Nestor said...

Hey, this is great. Why, I'm as excited as I was when the Oilers traded Gretzky for all those draft picks from LA. Just the thought of the Oilers' drafting geniuses getting their hands on all those prospects. Yeah, that Gretzky deal really ensured that they remained on top right through the 90s...
Right.

mike w said...

So I wake up to this, huh?

I guess I have another reason to hate the Ducks now, what with the best 1-2 defence in the league they've become instant favourites to win it all next year. With the Comrie trade, it appears that Lowe learned his lesson about trying to hard to send players out East.

I suppose the deal is okay. Lupul has the quick shot and scoring that the Oilers needed and the draft picks help balm the pain. Here's HF on Laddy Smid:

Ladislav Smid posesses a nice frame, but at 6'3'', 209 lbs. he is a bit of a lanky defenseman. Smid still has to bulk up not to be called skinny. His strongest assets are his very smooth puckhandling and an ability to handle huge traffic well. He is an above-average stickhandler and is very adept at making accurate outlet passes with precise timing. His solid slap shots contribute to his offensive flair, Smid only needs to unleash it more frequently. On the defensive aspect of his game Smid is positionally quite sound and stays with his man, but he could use some improvement in his defensive zone coverage. He isn't a hard hitter, he relies more on his strong vision and reading of plays, which enables him to foresee what will happen. Smid doesn't play afraid and his play doesn't go south when he is physically challenged. Ladislav Smid's skating is decent for a big man like him. He made strides in his agility and first-step quickness to go along with an upgraded balance. Smid shows an adequate lateral movement and isn't easy to outskate, even if he still could work on this aspect of his game. Smid also needs to learn how to keep his game more simple and not to overhandle the puck, thus bringing himself into trouble sometimes.

Doogie2K said...

condition still unknown but likely involves Anahiem destroying all comers

Pretty much. I'm pretty sure the exact phrasing is "Anaheim makes the Finals," but that's pretty much the idea.

Andy Grabia said...

So, fuck. Is this deal better than Bouwmeester/Horton?

Well, no. But that deal wasn't on the table.

And the Oilers site has confirmed that it is Lupul, Smid, 1st Rnd in 2007, conditional 1st Rnd in 2008, and 2nd Rnd in 2008.

Pleasure Motors said...

So, fuck. Is this deal better than Bouwmeester/Horton?

Well, no. But that deal wasn't on the table.


From what I've heard at Spectors Fox blog, Yahoo and some Florida papers, Lowe wanted that plus Florida's first-round pick, which Keenan thought was too steep. It was rumoured that Keenan offered Bouwmeester and Horton with no pick, before and after the draft, but Lowe didn't accept it. So, uh, it could have been on the table.

Also, what does conditional first round pick mean? Do the Ducks have someone else's first-round pick in 2008 that they could swap? Or is the conditional thing that we might not get it?

Anonymous said...

Probably conditional on how far the Ducks advance in the playoffs. Could be conditional on anything really. If Lowe was thinking, it would be conditional on the 2007 pick itself (e.g. if the 2007 pick isn't in the top 15, the Oil get another 1st rounder the following year). If Burke was thinking, he'd have made it conditional on Pronger wearing the Duck uniform for more than a year... ;-)

- Rod

Andy Grabia said...

It was rumoured that Keenan offered Bouwmeester and Horton with no pick, before and after the draft, but Lowe didn't accept it.

I don't think this was the case. I think that got web got spun out of what we asked for.

The conditional pick means it may change depending on how well the Ducks do in the regular season and playoffs with Pronger.

Anonymous said...

Or is the conditional thing that we might not get it?

Oops. Missed that part. Yep, the Oil might not get the 2008 pick. They only receive the pick if the condition (whatever that is) is met.

- Rod

Anonymous said...

the main thing is that that douchebag and his asshat wife are out of edmonton. good riddance, fuckheads.

Anonymous said...

Yes, goodbye Douchebag. Welcome Joffrey "future douchebag" Lupul.
Get a life.
-Randy

Pleasure Motors said...

I think it was the "conditional first" thing that screwed me up there--I know what conditional pick is, I just didn't know people did deals that involved a first-round pick or nothing. Hearing Prendergast, though, I guess it's just a conditional pick, potentially first round, pending on what the Ducks do.

Dennis said...

Lupul is a diving weanbag. He'd better be Jagr-esque on the PP because I can imagine he'll be a sinkhole at ES.

So now we have to shelter Hemsky and Loupul?

Get out now MacT

MikeP said...

Vishnevky's an RFA, according to TSN. I wonder if Lowe might not do a second deal for his rights, if he can't find anything elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

lupul isn't the only variable in this equation, randy, you dumb ass. Either way, fuckhead pronger had to leave, and i, for one, am glad that burke has been potentially fleeced for an alleged sports reporter impregnating adulterer douchebagasshatsonofabitchingrate.

fuck pronger, and fuck you, randy.

good day.

Anonymous said...

and by variable i meant component.

again, you're a douchebag to say that lupul might be a future douchebag...what's your point exactly? every player in the nhl has the potential to be a future douchebag. we just got rid of a presently huge douchebag for a guy we can use for a few years before he douchebags his way out of here. it's pro sports, you moron, randy. this is how it works.

Anonymous said...

I'M AN ANONYMOUS INTERNET POSTER DOUCHEBAG ASS BITCH DOUCHE FUCK RETARD AAAAAASGGGGGHGHG I HATE PRONGER SO FUCKING MUCH AND ALSO RANDY NOW!!!11!

ALSO, BITCH WIFE.

chris!

Randy in the ARRRRGH!!!! said...

To sum up my thoughts -- that means to compile or summarize -- on the "Future Douchebag" comment is that real assholes, like anonymous, are always going to fly into spitting, rage-a-holic fits everytime a professional athete dare not plant the Stanley Cup on the Moon in the name of Oilerdom. Therefore in several years, when Anonymous discovers that Lupul doesn't want to help Anonymous move, then Lupul will be a Douchebag.
Laced in there was that Anonymous should get a life, but nuff said.
Agreed... BITCHWIFE!!!

Dano said...

According to a Jim Matheson (Edmonton Journal) piece, one knock on Horton is that he has had some serious shoulder problems already.

case said...

i don't get why we get fleeced in this deal. he wanted out of his 5 year contract. if pronger wasn't canadian (yashin) he'd be ripped apart in the media. make him go play in russia. lowe is too fucking nice. pronger made us scramble before the deadline. lowe better have something up his sleeve.