Tuesday, February 12, 2008

More Global Vitality Food for Downtown Urban Thought

The PR campaign to drop an arena into downtown continues apace: this time we're hearing the usual "put the city on the map" Global Food Chain garbage coming out of today's conference organized by Dan Mason, the U of A Phys. Ed Prof and the Edmonton Journal's main expert on the economic benefits of sports facilities.

Faster than you can bat them down, more case studies are brought up as examples of singlehanded urban renewal from a sports facility, all of which miss the point to begin with. Today it's Indianapolis, yesterday it's Columbus. Some points about these developments:

1. A sport facility's economic benefit to a city, according dozens of academic studies: almost none (money is simply shifted from somewhere else in the local economy). Tell me again, aside from empty platitudes about "bringing vitality downtown," how a monolith sports complex is a magical panacea to urban renewal?

2. The real keys to downtown urban renewal: admittedly less novel and shiny, they include a long-term strategy that involves tax incentives, adaptive reuse policies, the renovation and preservation of historical properties (woops!), pedestrianization, waterfront rehab, etc. All have nothing to do with a new arena.

3. There's already a site called Northlands with exclusive parking (6,000 spots), arterial roads and an LRT station. A new arena can be built on the same site. For a city that's slashed budgets and raised property taxes, you'd think this is this a cheaper, more sensible option compared to the infrastructure contingencies of wedging an arena downtown (parking will be an issue). Then again, this is the same city mulling over giant $2 million crystals at the city's gates.

Meanwhile, some of the magical ideas that came out of today's Conference:

1. Purposely limit parking so that people have to walk in -30 weather!
"Next to no parking, so fans would walk three or four blocks to the ball park, meaning all that foot traffic would walk past restaurants and other retail." This is civic planning at its finest, folks.

2. Property taxes, benefiting from the future value of a revitalized downtown core, will pay for the arena itself! Considering the city's previous public/private property tax schemes, Edmontonians should be nervous. Awesome!

PS: GOILERS.

78 comments:

Kirsten said...

Jarret Stoll. Why is it that you have most of your goals against the Wild?

I wonder if I can somehow work this arena thing into my econ class. That would be much better than talking about cigarette prices in Oregon.

Chris! said...

Boy, this sure is going to be a tough march to the playoffs if the Oil keeps barfing up three shots against for every shot for!

mike w said...

The Brodziak Zack attack?

I'll take it.

Anonymous said...

I'm loving the anti-arena propaganda you spew on this site

Anonymous said...

The worst part of this idea is the no parking so poorer folk can just walk...While in theory I like this idea, do they realize how bad the transit situation is in Edmonton?

Where is everyone going to park? (maybe in the current Rexall parking lot and hop on the LRT from there) Seriously where else can that many people park and get on the LRT from...the University? One of the many downtown stops? Clareview? WTF!

Chartley

Andy Grabia said...

I wonder how the idea of limiting parking to luxury box holders will go over in this city? My guess: not too fucking well. People get beat down for suggesting shit like that here (or stabbed with $2 million dollar pieces of icicle art). This isn't Toronto, for God's sake.

Anyway, amen, brother. I increasingly feel like Mugatu at the end of Zoolander on this issue (can't everyone see it's the same look!"). It's good to see others feeling like they are on crazy crazy pills.

McLea said...

The real keys to downtown urban renewal: admittedly less novel and shiny, they include a long-term strategy that involves tax incentives

Property taxes, benefiting from the future value of a revitalized downtown core, will pay for the arena itself! Considering the city's previous public/private property tax schemes, Edmontonians should be nervous.

You managed to contradict yourself in three paragraphs. That's quite the feat.

And this might be counter-intuitive, but I can't see how the closing of the Dell Call Centre is a bad thing. At the time it wasn't bad idea, but giving the pre-requisite to earn $20/hour in Alberta is having a pulse, I think it's a good sign that people can choose not to earn shit ass wages working at a call centre.

It's one thing to lose 900 jobs when the unemployment rate is high, but quite another when half the businesses in Alberta can't find the people they need.

mike w said...

I don't think it's a contradiction: there are good deals and bad deals.

There is also a difference between giving acres of land worth millions for a call centre monolith and reasonable across-the-board tax incentives for encouraging housing development downtown.

I agree that losing Dell isn't the end of the world, however.

Gus said...

Call me sentimental, call me an old softy, but what's really wrong with Rexall Place? Is the roof caving in? Is the structure weakening? Does the ghost of Joe Murphy haunt the halls?

Why can't Rexall Place be our Wrigley Field or our Fenway Stadium? It already seats enough fans, it already has enough luxury boxes, it's already on Wayne Gretzky Drive... what more could you want?

If you really want to revitalize downtown Edmonton, take a lesson from Calgary and build more condos there. People tend to spend money in the area they live.

Mr DeBakey said...

Where can I find a place to park?

Downtown offers over 85 parking facilities from outdoor surface parking to open-air parkades, and, of course, heated parkades and underground parking facilities that allow you access to shopping and other services without ever going outside. With more than 45,000 parking stalls downtown, parking is easily accessible to everyone going almost anywhere in the downtown core.

From
http://www.edmontondowntown.com/

mike w said...

45,000 parking stalls downtown

"Downtown" is several kilometres wide and long, and none of the parking is exclusive for a hockey game, as of yet.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Covered in Oil:

I think you are an idiot, period. How can you say that a arena would not be the beginning of the downtown restoration. I lived in Edmonton(Deadmonton)for 12 years and could not believe the amount of time I DID NOT spend downtown when I left. A new arena downtown WILL help the centre of edmonton bring prosperity back within reach. Why do you go downtown otherwise if not for work right now? You do not, because it certainly isnt the sensation shopping that attracts you there. With Proper parking created near the arena (underground) and also with the already availability of LRT and street parking spaces that currently have no other use past 6pm there will be almost no issue with this as non-beleivers such as yourself keep rehashing such an unimaginative argument. Please continue to drive through the drunk-low class drug inhabited pawn shop infested area of northlands to see the team lose while not being able to attract any free-agents there because they, unfortunately, have to also drive through the same runk-low class drug inhabited pawn shop infested area just to play in the minus 30 weather. These arguments, such as yours, only continue to hurt the city that you live in and allow to remain known as Deadmonton.

Andy Grabia said...

YES!!! That may be my favorite comment ever.

Anonymous said...

The Parking issues is as imaginative as saying that "it also is once where the legendary Georges cycle used to be"

It means nothing and with the lack of usage already downtown it too could help spread out the pieces of shit that love to inhabit whyte ave.

Anonymous said...

How did the arena help revitalise the downtown in Columbus? After 5pm in downtown Columbus I'm left wondering if a neutron-bomb has gone off and nobody told me.

Anonymous said...

I also have to add that i now, unfortunately, live in Calgary. With the saddledome, after games, guess where I go? Anywhere i want close by. Which is Downtown. So where do I spend my money is the next question i ask? Downtown!! What happens with this money? It goes into the pockets of the business owners only to create other businesses and further develop their ventures? What do they ultimately do with that? Who knows, but I imagine it is somewhat like Hire workers, pay bills and then probably feed their children in the end. But i would say that bills being paid, workers hired, business expansion and paying newly raised property taxes would be a good start.

Chris! said...

"Dear Mr. Covered in Oil:

I think you are an idiot, period. "

This, of course, is now the new tagline for our blog.

Anonymous said...

Dear the anonomymous post above my last post, I question your theory regarding a neutron bomb in Columbus. Have you ever seen a neutron bomb go off? Do you know the true circumference of the destruction of a neutron bomb? If so, I question, how close to this neutron bomb explosion were you able to view it from and did you have a drink or anything else that might of inhibited your ability to determine the size of the explosion. I, personally, have the feeling that post the construction of a downtown arena in Columbus truly did not resemble mass destruction and chaos that a neutron bomb would cause. Also a quick thought, did you take int effect the mass chaos caused by the human population, similar to hurricane katrina, that would take place after such a catastrophy? All of these are all just food for thought while making such comparisons as an arena to a neutron bomb.

mike w said...

Um, okay!

Eyeris said...

How did we go from arena in Edmonton to Katrina? Are we blaming this on ineffective governance as well?

Assuming most games start at 7, 7:30, I can see area restaurants/pubs benefiting from a pre-game meal. However, who in their right mind would shop retail before going to a game? How do you get your bags of Holt purchases pass the security? And by extension, most shops will be closed by the time the games are over. So how exactly should the increased foot traffic stimulate the downtown retail economy?

... that is, unless the new arena is a pied piper that mysteriously beckons people into the downtown area even when the Oil isn't playing.

I don't buy the "increased foot traffic" theory. The Journal (Paula Simons) tried to cram the same theory down my throat when they advocated a downtown U of A campus. I didn't buy it then, I won't buy it now.

Mr DeBakey said...

Another fun fact for you Mr. Covered in Oil:

Peak Hour Movements (AM Peak 7:30 to 8:30, PM Peak 16:30 to 17:30)

♦ In the AM Peak Hour TOTAL PERSON entries increased slightly to 38,200 (+350, +1%); PM Peak Exits increased to 36,800 (+1,250, +4%).

♦ AM Peak Entries for AUTO PERSONS decreased to 24,650 (-450, -2%). PM Peak Exits showed no change at 25,350 AUTO PERSONS (+50, +0%).


Taken from the City's website. In 2006, 38,200 Edmonites made their way downtown each morning between 7:30 & 8:30.

ZOZ said...

Who are all these anonynerds?

Listen, as someone who actually lives downtown and gets to hear endless bitching about RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE parking, the new arena just doesn't fly there - and not just because those of us that aren't dumb, glint-following crows don't actually a new building to feel good about ourselves. The perfectly fine arena is seconds from the LRT, which for starters simply wouldn't be the case with the new Look Everyone Our Seriously World Class Extremedome or whatever they wisely dub it. It'd be introducing a bunch of often sullen drunks into the hood, already mad they spent so much on a) elevated ticket prices, b) parking, c) $8 beers, so I reasonably doubt they'd be all, "Hey, where can we put some MORE money." More like, "Fucking awesome - a downtown traffic jam!"

P.S., downtown is just fine if you have even the slightest idea how to find restaurants and bars in a "city." Detractors have always baffled me - there's lots of food and fun action on any $ scale, from Pagolac to Hotel Mac, Martinis to the ARTery. Open your eyes.

o<

MetroGnome said...

"Dear Mr. Covered in Oil:

I think you are an idiot, period. "

This, of course, is now the new tagline for our blog.


Hahahaha! I love comment thread here. I guess "too cute by half" had to fall eventually.

But, seriously...anonymous is actually Pleasure Motors in disguise, right?

Anonymous said...

so you live downtown and dont want it to get any louder. Your personal benefit especially matters to all of us "anonynerds".

Anonymous said...

and you are the loser with a blog, and i am the one without an ID because i cannot be bothered to sign up due to me being too big of a "nerd".

Blogging = nerd
not having a blogger id or blog = obviously not a nerd

DRZ said...

"Please continue to drive through the drunk-low class drug inhabited pawn shop infested area of northlands."

Hey, howcum the Coliseum never revitalized that area?

Oh, right... too much parking.

Kirk said...

Hey, "Obviously Not a Nerd",

All you need to have an ID is a gmail account. Are you saying that only nerds have email or that you don't have email?

Just wondering. Love the new tag.

Chris! said...

"Blogging = nerd
not having a blogger id or blog = obviously not a nerd"

Shit. That is what they refer to in debate circles as an air-tight argument.

Everyone stop disagreeing with Anonymous. He's obviously right about everything, even when he starts talking about Katrina or completely ignores zoz's argument and sets up a straw man about noise levels (?) instead.

This guy is way too cool to be wrong.
Not too cool to spend all day slumming with a bunch of blogger nerds and posting bizarre, disjointed screeds, of course. But way too cool to be wrong.

Art Vandelay said...

That neutron-bomb critique was some funny shit. I love it when people are on the local news and talk about the fallen power line on their street like "a bomb went off."

As for the anonymous dickwad who moved to Calgary, presumably because of the urban renewal Cowturds have experienced since blowing up acres of ghetto to build the Feminine Protection Dome:

A strip of bars full of drunk losers and braless skanks is not revitalization.
Moreoever, 17th Avenue is not downtown. Downtown is that part north of the tracks (or have you ever actually been there?)
The area around the arena is, always has been, and always will be, the hooker and drug-infested shithole misleadingly called Victoria Park (aka the neighbourhood waiting for the Calgary Stampede's Wrecking & Paving Crew).

Before the Coliseum was plopped next door to the meat-packing plant and Capilano Freeway built to serve it (instead of going along 50th Street, that area was a respectable working-class neighbourhood. It is Exhibit A for how an arena turns an area into a shithole. If only brainless sheeple such as yourself would look at the evidence, you could see it.
And if you'd ever travelled anywhere other than from home to work (making the large assumption you have a job) in Edmonton and Calgary, you'd know that most athletes work in a sporting facility surrounded by the same drek that you think scares them away from Edmonton. But your shrivelled manhood can't take the thought that Edmonton won't be winning a Stanley Cup for another hundred years because Chris Pronger's old lady didn't like the way Chrissie drooled over the strippers at the Forum.

And how a new arena is going to change Edmonton's weather patterns, I have no idea. Are you proposing we build a Monty-Burns-type bubble over the city to protect delcate hockeyplayers from the elements?

I'd celebrate that fact that you live in Calgary where your complete lack of intellect won't lead to my property taxes being used to fund a factory for hockey players. But you're surrounded by people who were stupid enough to vote for King Ralph despite the sea of red ink he plunged that city into to fund a two-week party for Olympic athletes and assorted hangers-on. So you're capable of supporting a provincial government that might harbour thoughts of using my income taxes to build an arena.

This is why Thomas Jefferson and the Founding Fathers feared democracy. Idiots get to vote (I'm paraphrasing) and before you know it, I'm paying for their stupid ideas.

Pleasure Motors said...

But, seriously...anonymous is actually Pleasure Motors in disguise, right?

I'd be more upset about being busted if you weren't all such nerds.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to return to gazing deep into the eyes of my life-sized cardboard cut-out of Dan Mason.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Chris! said...

Dude, check it out. I just deleted you because you're boring.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Chris! said...

Still boring.

McLea said...

After Art's five page tirade directed at a clearly illiterate anonymous commenter, I can't help but picture him spending hours on end getting in philosophical arguments with Boxcar Charley, freshly shot up with Calgary’s finest heroin, outside of the Mustard Seed on his way home from work.

Save your breath Art. You could probably find a better use for your time, although I somewhat appreciate the altruistic intent of wasting a couple thousand words lecturing a dyslexic retard.

Anonymous said...

The mythology about neutron bombs is they're quick and clean and they "get things done". Meaning they kill the people but leave objects relatively unscathed.

mike w said...

Hoo boy, did this thread ever turn into a Funhouse.

I feel like I'm HF Boards...

That artist guy who pops inveery once in a while...Aaron? said...

Your fish:

o<

looks like my crow:

o<

How about that?

Oh yeah, the arena sounds like quite the topic!

Lord Bob said...

Dear Mr. Covered in Oil:

Andy missed a golden chance to say "why don't you write more about hockey? HA! SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT?" I am highly disappointed in him. Andy, why don't you write more about people who don't write more about hockey?

Second, I hope nobody is actually arguing that downtown arena alone means beautiful downtown. I was always under the impression that an arena was useful as part of an overall revitalisation strategy.

Third, two-million-dollar icicles give me an erection. So long as somebody else is paying for them.

Fourth, WOOOOOOO HFBOARDS ATMOSPHERE! hay guyz, y dosnt low trade roloson + hemsky for luongo + sedins??? grate trad 4 both teemz - lb

(me again) said...

but only "veeery" once in a long while...

Chris! said...

Edmonton doesn't do the whole "overall strategy" thing very well.

Anonymous said...

I dont get it, why would someone be considered illiterate because they do want a downtown arena?

Anonymous said...

Dude, that's where the line is drawn:

Want arena: illiterate
Doesn't want arena: literate

It's nothing personal, it's just the way it's written in the City Charter.

Baroque said...

Why do you need multi-million dollar icicle sculpures in Edmonton?

If you don't have enough of the real thing, I'd be happy to ship them to you.

Don't know if I could get them through customs, though. I'd have to pack them in ice or something so they didn't melt. :)

Gus said...

no u looser trade roli and stortini 2 tb for lecaveyeh and 8 first round draft pix

(This thread is so awesome I mentally SHUTTED DOWN)

David S said...

"Dear Mr. Covered in Oil:

I think you are an idiot, period."

That's what I like about this blog. You never know when things will break down to sheer hooliganism.

I swear I can hear those crayons rattling around in Mike's hands right now. This one just BEGS for a comic.

Anonymous said...

Drz,

The crack neighbourhood post literally produced orange juice from my nose!

Mr. Debakey,

Still not close to sold on the parking deal...it's scattered over a pretty large area and our metro systems sucks from far too large a bag of dinks to make this anything but an extremely aggrevating experience for really most.

Could you seriously imagine if everyone that parks at Rexall for a game parked scattered throughout downtown to and all be additional passengers on the LRT?

Chartley.

Kirk said...

Anyone read about this:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=229580&hubname=nhl

Based on the quotes, (especially the last one,) I'd say we just figured out who anonymous is...

amw said...

that would explain things... only Burkie could explain so eloquently the impact of an N-bomb...

(and by that I mean no offense to the BC Hockey Hall of Fame)

Art Vandelay said...

Props to Anonymous for employing the Socratic method:

Anon 1: I dont get it, why would someone be considered illiterate because they do want a downtown arena?

Anonymous 2: Dude, that's where the line is drawn:
Want arena: illiterate
Doesn't want arena: literate


I am not worthy.

Andy Grabia said...

Another reason Burke is yelling at Lowe: to distract from his own crappy management. First off, it was his own damn fault he failed to initiate arbitration with Penner. Secondly, his team is borderline awful this year. The Ducks have a worse GF/G than the Oilers. Defence and goaltending is saving this team from being out of the playoffs. But unless Ketchup's return ignites the offence like a muthaf**ker, the Ducks are first-round fodder. It's easier not to see all that when Burke's pointing the finger at someone else.

Actually, maybe Burke and Lowe are the same person.

McLea said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Andy Grabia said...

I loved your most recent post on the matter, Mclea. What's the url of your blog again?

Chris! said...

McLea, have you even once made a meaningful contribution to the Oilers blogs you so glumly troll?

Deleted. Don't waste our time.

MetroGnome said...

Now Im curious what was in the deleted post.

Black Dog said...

Where's the love? It is Valentine's Day after all!

Hold me.

In other news Tampa also has a beautiful downtown arena and a downtown with nothing doing. Lots of nothing though.

Chris! said...

MG: Nothing interesting at all, actually. Just the usual pointless, non-constructive snark that has made McLea such a famously tedious presence.

Doogie said...

In 2006, 38,200 Edmonites made their way downtown each morning between 7:30 & 8:30 [AM]

Which is entirely relevant to hockey games starting at at 7 or 8 PM, I know.

Also, I live in Calgary. Guess where I go after hockey games? HOME. I don't want to get mugged or stabbed or raped by a hobo. (And yes, we still have those in Calgary, despite our sort-of-but-not-quite-downtown arena. Even in Vic Park.) And besides, anything that isn't a nightclub or bar is closed by 5 or 6 anyway, as far as I've experienced. And have you ever tried to get out of the ($11/shot) Saddlesore parking lot at 10:30 PM after a hockey game, along with nearly 20,000 others? Yeeeeah. Really "vital" here.

Mr DeBakey said...

Which is entirely relevant to hockey games starting at at 7 or 8 PM, I know.

Well it is
Congestion & parking are regularly given as reasons why a downtown arena is a bad idea.
I'm just pointing out that they're not good reasons.

If 38,000 can make it downtown every morning, Half that number can certainly find their way downtown in the evening for a Monster Truck Extravaganza, or other cultural event.

As well, there are many places to park once the 25,000 cubesters return to the bosums of their families at 4:30 each day.

dubya said...

A strip of bars full of drunk losers and braless skanks is not revitalization.

In your opinion.

mike w said...

If 38,000 can make it downtown every morning

Again, downtown is many square kilometeres of territory. Each KM takes about 12-15 for people to walk, so we're realistically talking about A LOT of parking in a confined area.

A bottleneck of 6,000 cars in private lots (that are not exclusive to hockey games, like Northlands) around Sir WInston Churchill Square all leaving at the same timeis not easy to shrug of. There are also no arterial roads, just red lights every block.

The committee says parking's a "red herring" but then again their advisor is also floating ideas of limiting parking anyway.

heed said...

parking? seriously? i'm not a supporter of the downtown arena but it has nothing to do with parking. however if you want to really get edmontonians behind the "no arena" campaign, i'm sure if you tell them that there will less snow removal because of it. they will all get in their cars and drive down the block to support it.

mike w said...

parking? seriously?

It's a bad fit for many reasons. Parking is one of them.

heed said...

mike,

i agree that this project is entirely a "smoke and mirrors" campaign but i'm not going to buy into the parking issue. i'm a frequent public transport user (i average about 5 trips a week on the bus). my parents always made sure we lived in close proximity to public transport and i've continued the tradition. hell i didn't even get my license until i turned 28 (mind you that was largely due to my desire to be the "designated drinker" at every occasion). i'm going to leave it at that because i don't like to argue about the public transportation system in this city because it often involves arguing with people who never use the damn thing in the first place. my reasons for not liking the arena downtown:

1) it's going to involve public dollars and we have better things to spend money on. possible ideas include: shelters for the homeless (god knows there are more and more people moving to this province thinking that the streets are paved in gold only to find out that it isn't entirely true), possibly improving public transportation and my personal favorite, more fireworks on canada day. i want to see my drunken retinas burned by their awesomeness!

2) the old arena is fine for me because all i need to watch hockey is a seat and beer (the seat isn't even necessary cause standing room ain't bad).

3) the downtown core actually appears to be reviving itself. it's changed a helluvalot in the last 15 years and didn't need an arena to accomplish that. just housing.

4) i know it's one of mandel's attempts at solidifying his "legacy" in this town and i'm starting to get annoyed by that smug bastard.

that's all i got.

ps can i prove any of this using corsi numbers? i doubt it but i bet jan hedja could.

Anonymous said...

1) it's going to involve public dollars and we have better things to spend money on. possible ideas include: shelters for the homeless (god knows there are more and more people moving to this province thinking that the streets are paved in gold only to find out that it isn't entirely true), possibly improving public transportation and my personal favorite, more fireworks on canada day. i want to see my drunken retinas burned by their awesomeness!

Ummmm, we live in alberta (thankfully) Who needs shelters when the homeless just die in the winter like stray cats. IF your gonna be a unemployed vagabond or a gypsy at least be smart about it and locate to florida or victoria. Thats atleast what the one with PHD's in being hungry do.

Pete said...

Speaking of McLea, I'm pleased I finally figured out who his avatar is.

Scottish poet Robbie Burns. That douche.

Anonymous said...

zoz, you call downtown parking "ridiculously expensive" yet it costs me 10 bucks to park near the agricom...dirt cheap!!!

The day I don't have to walk down 118th ave and be afraid for my life, the better! Its no wonder no one want to play here..

long live Katz and his shiny new arena!



Jordan

David S said...

You think parking is expensive here? Try downtown Calgary. Jeezuz!

heed said...

You think parking is expensive here? Try downtown Calgary. Jeezuz!

shhhh. this is edmonton where free parking is a god given right. how dare you suggest otherwise.

mike w said...

This Comments Thread officially gets the Golden Funny Award. The trophy will be mailed to everyone who didn't have a comment deleted.

David S said...

"Souray out for season" - 8 posts

"More Global Vitality Food for Downtown Urban Thought": - 71 posts

THAT'S funny! Or indicative I suppose. Either way, gotta love CiO!

Go Oilers!

Rock Deputy said...

"Souray out for season" - 8 posts

"More Global Vitality Food for Downtown Urban Thought": - 71 posts

Everybody knows that Souray is a huge waste of money...

some people still need convincing that the new arena is too.

garnet said...

Why don't they leave the arena where it is and move the parking downtown? That way retailers get even more foot traffic. Stop by the York Hotel lounge en route to the rink and revitalize the area with a pint of your blood!

dstaples said...

Mike, interesting post, but the allure of a downtown arena development -- which, if done right, will have help out the downtown, as it did in Columbus -- is a more compelling vision for Edmonton than the stand-pat vision you are presenting.

In Columbus property values shot up around the Arena District, which shows this kind of development can have a big impact, if done right.

Let me say that one more time: If done right.

I don't think any of us should be arguing strongly in favour or against this project until we see the detailed plans. That is when the real fight should commence.

LittleFury said...

Mike, interesting post, but the allure of a downtown arena development -- which, if done right, will have help out the downtown, as it did in Columbus -- is a more compelling vision for Edmonton than the stand-pat vision you are presenting

Allure...like crows on shiny things.

It's interesting to me that sprinkling pixie dust over downtown is probably the last thing on the mind of the people behind this scheme, yet it's pretty much the only angle the media has taken on this.

Eyeris said...

It's interesting how even with the Oilers getting a convincing win out of the Sharks last night, we still would rather talk about the arena.

Downtown arena = boooo.

Anonymous said...

I also hate the downtown arena proposal. It's wrong on so many levels, rushhour is bad enough as is.
Adaptive-use policies would be much more effective in revitalizing downtown, and that is already happening, why can't anyone sit still for a decade anymore?!?

The decisions being made in Edmonton are too hit-or-miss lately...
hits: lrt expansion, u of a renovations to Bay building
misses: sand beaches, new welcome signs made of crystals and weigh 4 million tonnes and most likely to magnify or reflect the sun's rays onto random low-income nieghbourhoods and burn them right off the fucking map - and subsequentially making Edmonton safe and pleasing for multi-million star hockey players who had initial doubts about working here long-term.
...
thus I suggest a coup-de-etát of anyone in any sort of power in this city. Then again that would be yet another hit-or-miss decision. fucking vicious cycle this.

icho